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kpin
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Quote kpin Replybullet Topic: Leaning???
    Posted: Jul/17/2010 at 04:31

Any thoughts? Any opinions? Anyone know? I know leaning and acro do not exactly work together, at least not here in New England. Regardless one of the neat things about a Skybolt is that it makes a half decent cross country machine. Leaning now becomes a part of the flight regimen. I learned to lean by using a fuel flow meter in a Decathlon (prior owner instructions). I followed his method. It seemed to work well so I never questioned the procedure. Now with my Skybolt I would like to use the recently installed JPI Fuel flow meter and see that Lycoming, in their owner’s manual, mention this as a legitimate method of leaning. The problem is their tables are not exactly very clear regarding the procedure. In the Decathlon I simply leaned until the engine showed signs of running a little rough and then add 1/2 GPH to the rough running fuel consumption point. This is so simple compared to Lycoming unexplainable tables. What don’t I understand?

Ken Pincince
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Quote jgnunn Replybullet Posted: Jul/17/2010 at 04:41
Moved to Firewall Forward.
John'Beej'Nunn Blog Skybolt S 200HP. Always go the extra mile. The road won't be crowded...
Jerry
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Quote Jerry Replybullet Posted: Jul/17/2010 at 05:31
Ken
 
Have you asked the acro list yet ? Nothing but like minded pilots on there.
 
Jerry

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TFF1
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Quote TFF1 Replybullet Posted: Jul/17/2010 at 06:34
Are you trying lean of peak or trying to match the normal leaning techniques to the charts?
kpin
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Quote kpin Replybullet Posted: Jul/18/2010 at 05:44

I am simply trying to come up with a method of safely leaning the engine at cruise and altitude. The EGT is not dependable. In the Decathlon I leaned the mixture till rough and then added ½ gal/hr of fuel. This seemed to work well but was it correct? Since Lycoming mentions that it is viable to lean by fuel flow I would like to know the method.  Lycoming does not explain nor are their charts very clear. I would assume every power setting at every altitude would require a different fuel flow to run at the correct air fuel mixture. I would also assume that the altitude I speak of is density altitude and not MSL. I believe this subject is a bit more complicated than most realize. First time pilots are taught to gradually pull mixture until the engine runs rough and then richen the mixture until the engine runs smooth or the RPM comes back to cruise power.  Add an EGT and you can now determine the peak EGT and if I am not mistaken drop the EGT by a specific amount. (50 deg)?  Now I am a little confused because if the best fuel air mixture is the same as the most efficient burning ratio is peak EGT the most efficient? I would think not since in many situations efficiency is measured by the delta T. All of the BTU’s going out the exhaust represent lost HP.  This all said and done my guess is I am missing some point that explains all of this and my main goal is to have a safe, easy and reliable method to lean using the fuel flow. I suppose the best method might be to lean to peak EGT, if mine worked reliably, and then add a little fuel to cool the cylinders.

Ken Pincince
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Quote TFF1 Replybullet Posted: Jul/18/2010 at 10:29
The only way I know of using the fuel flow is to lean with the EGT where you want it and then look at the fuel flow and note the number.  I am going to have to look at the charts you are looking at this week, sometime; I have always used the FF as a verification gauge.
 Lean of peak is a method you have to have all the right equipment to do; you dont use it if you dont have everything.  With lean of peak you would blow the engine up if you added fuel after you found the peak.  With lean of peak you actually go over-lean past the detonation point; you add just a little bit of fuel and it puts it back into detonation.  
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Quote JoeyC Replybullet Posted: Jul/18/2010 at 19:09
Re lean-of-peak operations, no expert here, but from what I've read to do it safely (for engine life), you need GAMI injectors and an engine analyzer.
 
I do more sightseeing and X-C in my Skybolt than aero. I do have an EGT gage which I use to search for peak and then run about 50 degrees rich of that. During the year I watch my exhaust pipes for any excessive sooting and track my fuel burns religiously, which tells me if I'm leaning  consistently where I should be. Then the acid test is what the plugs look like during the annual (or whenever they're pulled).
 
I just did mine and three of the four looked great - that nice brown look of good combustion and no fouling. The fourth one looked OK color-wise but had just a trace of lead fouling, so I can probably go a little closer to peak this coming year.
 
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Quote darylat8750 Replybullet Posted: Jul/18/2010 at 20:31
The key is,  How much power are you using at cruise?  If you are using 60% or less it is pretty hard to hurt a non turbo Lyc. or Cont.  If you are just sight seeing it dosen't make sense to me to use more than that.  Heat is what you are concerned with and below a certain power level the engine won't make enough heat to hurt itself no matter the mixture.    I would lean it until it runs a little rough then richen it just enough to smooth it out.  Thousands of C150s, Cherokee 140s and other training airplanes with no EGT gauges have been leaned that way for more than 60 years with no ill effects.  If you are running 75% it requires more attention although I would not be too concerned using that technique with a 260hp O540 at 70% power.
Daryl in WY
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Quote pigpenracing Replybullet Posted: Jul/19/2010 at 04:19
Ok you say 60 percent or 70 percent power. How do you know what percent power you have in it anyway? On takeoff I have 28 inches manifold pressure and 2700 rpm's at 23 gph. I usually bring it to 25 inches and 2500 rpm and lean it to 20gph on climb and acro. During cruise I use 22 inches, 2400 rmps and 16.5 gph. I don't know if this is correct but clyinder head temp is around 300 and egt not to toasty. My thought is a little on the rich side will not hurt anything but you get lean there is trouble to follow. So with these numbers what percent power am I useing?
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Quote JoeyC Replybullet Posted: Jul/19/2010 at 05:11
I'd heard Lycoming has a power chart that gives percentages vs. power settings, but I can't find it in their on-line pubs list; maybe someone on here can speak to it.
 
My manual does suggest leaning below 70% power but recommends full rich at higher power settings, as Daryl implies - heat is the enemy. But if you're burning 16.5 gals at 22/24, it sounds like you're running pretty rich for a power setting that sounds like it must be just about at or below 70%. It won't do any real damage except to your wallet and (fouled) plugs.
 
At the leisurely (22/22) power I use for sightseeing and beach running around the Cape, my IO-360 consistently burns about 9 gph and change. As I said earlier, I lean on EGT (and can probably be a little more aggressive at it), and I also lean on the ground while taxiing and warming up.
 
Joe
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darylat8750
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Quote darylat8750 Replybullet Posted: Jul/19/2010 at 07:52
Charts that have rpm/manifold pressure= horsepower=% are available for all airplane engines someplace.  Look for a certified airplane that has your engine configuration in it.  I'm a little busy today but will look around in the next few days if someone else dosen't come find some first.  At 22" 2200rpm on an IO360 you should be a less that 65%
Here is what lyc. has to say about operating their engines.
www.lycoming.textron.com/support/tips.../Key%20Operations.pdf


 

www.eaa105.org/Info/o360_power.xls -





I messed up the copy and paste but that link will get you there.















135 HP -- 75% Rated

Approx. Fuel 10.6 Gal/Hr

RPM & Man. Press.
2400 2200 2300 2400
21.5 25.1 24.5 23.9
21.3 24.8 24.2 23.6
21.0 24.6 24.0 23.4
20.8 24.3 23.7 23.2
20.6 24.0 23.5 22.9
20.3 23.8 23.2 22.7
20.1 FT 23.0 22.5
19.9
FT 22.2
19.7 - - FT
19.5



19.3



19.1



FT




























































































































































































Google is your friend.;-)


Edited by darylat8750 - Jul/19/2010 at 07:57
Daryl in WY
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Quote cwilliamrose Replybullet Posted: Jul/19/2010 at 09:07
Here it is in PDF format..........Bill

uploads/20100719_090614_Lyc_O-360_power.pdf
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